Steering a Family Legacy Through the Digital Revolution with Thomas Ballard
In the virtual Lemonade Stand, Emily is on location at ServiceTitan's Marketing for the Trades Summit in Glendale, CA, and talking with Thomas Ballard from Ballard Plumbing & Air! They discuss persistence, strategic innovation, and maintaining growth in an ever-changing industry.
0:07 - Adapting in the Home Service Industry
12:03 - Advice for Growing a Family Business
21:38 - Appreciation for Ballard Plumbing and Air
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Speaker 1: 0:07
What's up, lemonheads? Welcome back to another episode. I'm Emily and I'm coming to you live from the Service Titan Marketing Summit in Los Angeles, and I have a very special guest with me here today. They declared him the winner. I don't know if he feels like he's a winner that he got to dive into this podcast, but nonetheless, we're going to hear from Mr Thomas Ballard. He said his company and the great things that they are doing, and we think you'll be able to find some very relevant information from your guys' story and what you guys are doing in the home service space. So, without further ado, let's sip some Lemonhead. Yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2: 0:44
I appreciate it. So yeah, just to give a back story on me. I grew up in Southern California. I've been here for a long time and original plan wasn't going to come into this business.
Speaker 1: 0:58
Like many people.
Speaker 2: 0:59
Yeah, like many people and everybody riding with their dads or family members growing up. It wasn't the plan, but life happens and hey, some opportunities came up. So a couple years back about three, four years now my cousin's won the retire. I'm buying them out of the business Still ongoing but almost there getting paid off but they got into the family business. It's 74 years old 74? Wow it's a long time, oh yeah, since 1949. Wow, I've been a great company, so been learning the business as we go from the operational standpoint. So really been learning the ins and outs of that part of business rather than just running the service calls as I was accustomed growing up. So been learning that and been lucky to grow along the way.
Speaker 1: 1:44
So you grew up in the industry, growing up running calls probably, maybe answering phones in the summer at some point, or I know that can be a common thing for trade babies.
Speaker 2: 1:53
If you will, yeah, I mean, I'll be honest, I was more of a helper, more of an like and friend, so I was just an extra pair of hands.
Speaker 1: 1:58
Yes, pull the clutch on the personal affection.
Speaker 2: 2:01
Yeah, like get this, get that.
Speaker 1: 2:03
Not so much an actual service technician, but I appreciate what they do.
Speaker 2: 2:08
But yeah, I'm more so helping or answering the phones. You know, I remember growing up and we'd have our phone in the house and it, like lying to, was always answered. So we'd answer it then and there and the customers would hear me thinking that I was another family or calling no, but that would get earned their trust in our business, absolutely. It was great learning that growing up how to deal with customers and everything like that.
Speaker 1: 2:29
So I'm sure now or I know now things are a little bit different and so not bringing the landline at your house anymore.
Speaker 2: 2:36
No.
Speaker 1: 2:37
And so now you're the general manager and so how have you seen some things kind of shift in your own business and how your company has had to adapt to those?
Speaker 2: 2:47
changes? Yeah, Just to give a background. So when I first got there, it's my cousins. When I got there, wasn't there great technicians and everything but, they had no internet to the building. They're running off a DOS based system which I didn't even know what DOS was, you know?
Speaker 1: 3:04
AKA old school.
Speaker 2: 3:05
Yeah, very old school and had a role with X Okay. So they were running coming off that it was still doing in 2020 about just shy of five million revenue.
Speaker 1: 3:14
Okay, so they're doing all that in 2020. Yeah, so they're running just three years still on a roll.
Speaker 2: 3:19
Yeah, a little bit behind but they had a very good business.
Speaker 1: 3:23
Sure Been running since the 40s and everything like that and loyal customer base where they were fourth generation customers, that they've replaced their units for times with us Wow. And their family keeps coming back to us, so we had a good reputation community.
Speaker 2: 3:37
They never spent any like, I think, $500 per year on marketing. Wow, doing that? Yeah, based on that and came in there, but we had to implement, you know, bring internet to the building. Finally, Step one, yeah, step one and then finally add in other things, and we added in marketing not too long ago, so, and it got to help us along the way.
Speaker 1: 4:00
So we're here at the service time summit, so you also got service Titan at some point. When did that come along?
Speaker 2: 4:06
About a month ago actually.
Speaker 1: 4:07
We finally switched that. Oh hey, we're even new. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: 4:11
So once you do start adding the marketing, it really does matter. Kind of like what we talked about this morning the RLM return on marketing. So being able to actually not like shooting the dark.
Speaker 1: 4:22
Absolutely.
Speaker 2: 4:22
Because for the first year of us marketing it's just money in the wind and you're kind of going off gut. So, and you know, luckily for us it did work. But long term growth you don't want to depend on that yeah, so that's why we're going to that and luckily I'll be call tracking things that SurfSign has and reporting. It'll just really help us go to the next level.
Speaker 1: 4:45
So how has that been like for you personally? Like going, you know, in a family owned business that's obviously been around for 70 something years, so they're doing something right. Okay, so you can see like okay, there's some of these immediacies like internet you know, getting a good CRM system, starting to invest in some marketing and stuff. How did you prioritize what's implement first, because you can't do everything at the same time.
Speaker 2: 5:08
No, that was the hardest part is having the patients and the willpower not to just force everything through, especially for me. Like there are more experienced operators out there, I'm sure that are listening to everything too that they could power it through quicker, just in my experience of not being operationally experienced, that I did it at a three year pace where, okay, we got to. You know all right now we have, we're able to dispatch our calls with actually being online and we're able to now focus on marketing. Okay, we're doing direct mail pieces.
Speaker 1: 5:40
Okay.
Speaker 2: 5:41
Offers that they have no promotions at all. So having promotions, you know, getting involved in the community more and doing things like that, I would say the first thing you would probably want to start doing is the first touch point is always the call center. So I would say, have your calls tracked. That's the first step in marketing is having all your lines tracked. So if you have your main line, if you've had a magazine that you have, like some H away magazine maybe that you're in, have that be a different phone number. That's on call tracking. So just some sort of call tracking system so each number is separated out so you can see okay, this marketing is working, this isn't, and you're able to cut the losers quickly and double down on winners.
Speaker 1: 6:30
Well, and that's the key thing about yes, like everyone, and this is you need this data. You need this data. You need this data to be able to report it, and search site is great at that. But, like, on the flip, you have to be able to make some decisions based off this data and being willing to pivot and stuff like it does nobody any good. But, yes, we can generate any kind of report with all the numbers and stuff. We have to be able to be multiple and pivotable to make some decisions from those data points.
Speaker 2: 6:57
Yeah, yeah, and that was the main key of being flexible to where the market is. So like, especially 2020 with all the market changes with COVID and everything like that, we saw a larger response from like. At the time, lsa was still like Google search ads were a lot cheaper than they are now. At the time, sadly, but it really with our online presence and building like, doing the call center and the tracking, building up your reviews. So, if you can be above 4.7 or above luckily, we're at 4.9. The analytics school analytics will put more leads to you and they see how fast they're answering the phone. you want to be within you know probably 10 seconds or 15 seconds, but it'll be able to tell if you're not answering that quick and somebody isn't answering and they'll find more leads based on that in your service area. So just learning all these little tick tech tricks and then also doubling down. So for us was the Google service ads and the direct mail pieces really benefited us and the reviews.
Speaker 1: 8:02
Right yeah, On your direct mail. Are you doing like prospecting direct mail or direct mail to your internal customer?
Speaker 2: 8:08
A little bit of both. Yeah, so we started with doing like. At first we started just doing thank you cards, so like, let's say, we run 500 service calls in a month. I'm using arbitrary number, but if we run 500 service calls in that month. I'm sending 500 thank you cards with a attached gift card for them and then another one for, like your friends and family. And here's if they want to use somebody $50 on the card, so we send that to them and that actually gets a lot more than I think it might not be right then there, but it will come back, or I'm very pleased, I'll remember you.
Speaker 1: 8:38
Yeah.
Speaker 2: 8:39
So we did that at first, got the response on that and then we also did to prospects to nub cards, especially for us out here in Southern California. Sometimes we don't have the weather support sadly. Yeah, yeah, you gotta rely on your tune ups and build up and build a ticket to an easy point of entry.
Speaker 1: 8:58
It's a low cost. It's a way to get you in the door and then you might could uncover a problem when they might need a new system install or duct cleaning or something like that.
Speaker 2: 9:08
Yeah, yeah, just building your options from their insulation, whatever you can train on, a, build on, and just really focusing down on that. So for us the tune up car been good. We also did some mailings on a. For us it was a Free furnace ladder. That's pretty common, especially in the Midwest and luckily that's where our A lot of our friends that are next start group are from, so we get to ask them some questions as well. So that helped us. But using those pieces plus the mix of Google one, the reviews, that really it really helped us grow.
Speaker 1: 9:44
Yeah, yeah. Well, and I know you're a multi-service Company, so you have plumbing and HVAC right.
Speaker 2: 9:50
Yeah, correct.
Speaker 1: 9:51
Okay, which came first?
Speaker 2: 9:53
For us, plumbing came first.
Speaker 1: 9:54
I was in 49 and then AC added in I believe 56 or 57, okay, okay, so you've still had HVAC a lot.
Speaker 2: 10:02
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: 10:03
So what are some ways that you guys kind of cross promote and makes you that you're well known for? Hey, we start off as just a plumber. Maybe you've used this as a plumber, but how can we also be your HVAC guy and vice versa? What are some ways that you'll cross promote?
Speaker 2: 10:16
Big ways that we cross my. I'm still working. This is still a work in progress.
Speaker 1: 10:19
So why you're here at this summit?
Speaker 2: 10:21
Yeah, so why I'm here? One simple one that I learned recently, which I didn't really think about all these little nuggets, is when you're on the phone, let's say if they call in for AC, and at the end when you're about to get off the call. So you know, while we're out there today, is there anything else you need help with? You know we offer plumbing, or is there anything at home the plumbing that you need help with?
Speaker 1: 10:41
I do a lot of heater inspection.
Speaker 2: 10:43
Yeah, it's like anything, just like that. Like is there anything going on in the house you have to look out with your plumbing? You know, right there, just even ask, sure Is any option. It actually gets us some calls. So that little bit then also kind of doing while they're on the call to having your guys, like while they're going through, let's say I don't know in other markets, because I know like in Texas or Florida a lot of those homes have an attic, but in California there's a lot of in the garage furnaces, so the water. You're working there too. So you know I was looking at water too. It looks like it's a bit old and pro. You'd like to have maintenance on that? Yeah, we'd have somebody out here do a whole inspection for you, and it just really helps having your AC be able to flip to those guys and your AC help flip, you know, vice versa.
Speaker 1: 11:31
So just doing that a bit helps too well, and one thing that I saw was very interesting, can I share revenue numbers? yeah okay, so you know, been in business since the 40s and up until 2020, had been at about five million dollars, correct, and from 2020 to 2023 you're at 10 million. Okay, so you know, you can definitely see how long it took you to get to five, but then doubling that five more in a much shorter time span of, you know, around three years, that's fantastic. Congratulations and kudos to you. What are some of the key elements that you think help contribute to that? Like I know, you mentioned next star, your best practice group. Are there some other things, or how has that helped?
Speaker 2: 12:08
you. I mean I'll be completely awesome, very fortunate to have such a big family to call on. Yeah, so my family. There's actually like 23 other plumbing in your companies that all are family members and most of them are in Southern California, all except one, so I can always call them for advice. And there are a couple of them are doing pretty well, like, for example, like one would be Leigh Lynn Smith of service champions. He's actually a cousin and very fortunate to be able to call somebody like him and say, hey, could you meet me for a? lunch or something yeah it's great, just give me advice. But being able to call like next star or them like hey, you know, this marketing isn't really working as much or like. You know what do I need to train more? What is working the past for them, but now use technology that's available now that's exceeding more.
Speaker 1: 13:04
Now be more efficient and provide value to the customer yeah, and even from an operational aspect, like how can we be more efficient? So like, put marketing completely to the side. You know there, definitely had to be some, I think, other key factors to help you see that growth and that time span.
Speaker 2: 13:20
Yeah, yeah, besides the marketing, I would say for sure was getting down to what we wanted to do and offer as a company, obviously, or in a factory plumbing I don't mean like that, offering different things, but just like what our core values are, what we want to do and provide to the customer. So you know, when we realize there's certain type of clientele that won't be our fit, so we're going to be the highest price but we're going to be the lowest, so we want to be in a nice range for us to hit our margins and being able to provide that value to that customer and focus on those customers rather than what we were doing before is on everybody.
Speaker 1: 14:03
Correct. Mine is will be nobody yeah.
Speaker 2: 14:06
So you've got to really be, and that's what I would take from like leaving to other family members. That I learned is focus is number one and same consistency. You can have the best plan but if you're not consistent with it and you're not focused, there's going to be no results. So that's been the main thing. Same like with direct mail. Consistency with the direct mail is key and it can be hard, especially when you're not seeing the results. Sure, sure, and I struggle with that at times, but sticking with it is the main thing.
Speaker 1: 14:39
No for sure, Like your first direct mail, drop is going to be a flop. Like it's going to be like what is this? But it takes that continuation of hitting the same home. So it doesn't also matter if you have postcards going out every single week. But if it's going to someone different every single week, how can we focus on it going to the same home every four, six, eight weeks or so, to where they're continuously seeing it, to where they don't have a problem then but eight weeks, 16 weeks from now, they might, and then that postcard is giving them that reminder.
Speaker 2: 15:10
Yeah, yeah, and that's what's been really helping us is just the follow up. And if they have a call and you see you sent up keys, you can have your call center, if you have the capability to do so, the follow up, and say hey, mr and Mr Jones, I see that we were up for a plumbing maintenance. We sent out a mail to you recently. Just want to make sure you got it, absolutely.
Speaker 1: 15:28
On AC tune up.
Speaker 2: 15:29
If you haven't had that scheduled, it would really be a great idea to make sure your system's running properly. Your air filters are checked. If they haven't been, we can set you up on a program that we have where they're mailed to your home XYZ. All these things to make sure we were able to get into the home.
Speaker 1: 15:43
Yeah, so having a plan and not just relying on just that one touch point. But yeah, so after the direct mail hits home, could we then send them a text message or ring this voicemail and then maybe even following up with an actual phone call and stuff and that's how you've been able to see some real results.
Speaker 2: 15:57
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: 15:57
Yeah, that's fantastic.
Speaker 2: 15:59
Yeah, oh, it's been great.
Speaker 1: 16:01
Well, good, well, if you could give a piece of advice to a new contractor, a new general manager or someone coming up inside of a family business, it would be something you would give them, maybe a do and a don't.
Speaker 2: 16:19
Can I give a couple of do's?
Speaker 1: 16:20
Oh, sure, yeah, I would say do's.
Speaker 2: 16:23
If you're setting up, is it an existing company or starting fresh from nothing?
Speaker 1: 16:30
Well, or do you have one? For either Either, I think it's applicable to both.
Speaker 2: 16:33
So if you're going into a company, I would say if you're starting off fresh, whether you have employees or it's just you, I would say set the expectation of what you want your company to be. So, how you carry the value of what you want your company to offer. So if you present it as a company that you don't really. You aren't holding your people accountable to a higher standard of presenting, educating your customers and showing them options, for there's not one way to fix anything. There's a plethora being able to have them stick to that, because if you don't have expectations set upfront, it's going to be a constant battle. I dealt with that for the first two years of not setting expectations, and now I'm having to go back and fix that. So if you just set expectations from the start. You aren't going to have to go back and fix it later. That was a headache I wish, but I had to learn that.
Speaker 1: 17:30
But if they could avoid it.
Speaker 2: 17:31
That would be one thing. Set expectations early of what you want and maybe go down four values and how you want your ideal business to be. And then number two would be really have your calls like tracked so you are able to see all your streams of where your call flow and where your leads are coming from. So you do know, so you can be more granular with what you want to do.
Speaker 1: 17:58
And just having insight.
Speaker 2: 17:59
Yeah, yeah, data is everything, especially in the yeah age that we are now. And then third would be really it's really simple to provide options. We they were providing options when I first got there and we weren't either for about a year. And just providing options. If you went to a Ford dealership and said the only thing you get is a Ford Maverick with cloth seats, you can't get the F-150 that has a sweet leather seats and everything in it. You know it looks great and everybody can't have it.
Speaker 1: 18:28
You'd be like, well, is there something in between?
Speaker 2: 18:31
Like well, no, so it's providing options.
Speaker 1: 18:34
It's a big key and when you do that, it puts the ball in their court, like they have the control to be able to pick which one they want versus. Here it's this take it or leave it.
Speaker 2: 18:42
Yeah, and just educate them. You don't. You don't have to hard sell, just provide the options, put them there and at least nine times out of ten, they're not, they're going to pick something in the middle typically.
Speaker 1: 18:53
Yeah.
Speaker 2: 18:53
Because it's there. And then last one just be out, focus on reviews and at Google LSA. It's a cheap lead source relatively and it pays off in the long run For sure. And then a don't would be don't focus so much on, like the awards, tv radio until you get down the reviews, the LSA, the call-trade and everything like that. Focus on you know grassroots. Focus on you know getting the referrals and your local community. Focus on your couple zip codes that you're based out of and really own your neighborhood.
Speaker 1: 19:33
Sure.
Speaker 2: 19:34
That's really been well for us over the years.
Speaker 1: 19:37
Because when you get into that mass media like the TV, the billboards, radio, things like that, that is not going to have a direct ROI. And so, if you're kind of, just getting started in that marketing train. Like you're looking at these numbers, you'll be sadly disappointed. You know, it's great to help building brand recognition, one of the things that you could hopefully see like hey, this is somewhat working for me is like has your organic search volume you know online? has that gone up Like people actually searching your name because they've become more familiar with you from the environment and stuff?
Speaker 2: 20:07
Yeah.
Speaker 1: 20:08
But it is very hard to put a tracking number on a radio ad or a billboard or something because, like and people will try to do it, but I'm like, do not put a phone number on your billboard, like someone driving down 70 miles an hour is not going to, but that's not what it's intended for. Those pieces are not call to action pieces. They are branding memorable pieces, getting your name out there.
Speaker 2: 20:29
Yeah, yeah, and that's that's pretty much key, just following those things, remembering that that's more of a putting money in the bank, so to speak, for later on. Yeah, but starting off, that's something to do down the road so. I think as long as they follow, that those are good stepping stones to follow. And then if you join, you know service sign or a group like Nextstar or any other. There's some good best practices groups out there. If you're fresh and just network, get them. You know people see other ideas and really apply everything. I think you're a mile ahead of everybody.
Speaker 1: 21:04
Well, and I think one thing that you mentioned is like you're not afraid to ask or to call up somebody and you know yeah maybe putting a price inside, or arrogance or something to like I don't know, or like I failed at this. You know how'd you do it?
Speaker 2: 21:16
Yeah, it's putting ego aside. That's at first is very hard, but you got to see there's no ego in this. You got to go to you know what's what's right and what works and just seeing okay, there's people that have succeeded. Let's see what they've done and see if I can apply that to my business and also do well.
Speaker 1: 21:35
Absolutely.
Speaker 2: 21:36
It works well so.
Speaker 1: 21:38
Well, thomas, it's been a pleasure chatting with you and getting to know you a little bit more, and I really do say kudos to you and what you've done in the past three years since you've been the manager, and I'm excited to see where Ballard plumbing and air goes next. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate you for having Awesome. Well, thank you for listening to another episode of from the yellow chair. We would love a review from us. You could give us a follow on all the social media as well. We are there and thanks for listening to another episode.
